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  • Originalmente publicado por Carmona Ver Mensaje

    Igual, igual...

    Yo conozco a comunistas que son maravillosas personas y que dedican su vida a ayudar a los más necesitados. Algunos literalmente han arriesgado su vida en países del tercer mundo (tanto por enfermedades como por motivos bélicos) ayudando en materias de educación y sanidad de forma totalmente altruísta e incluso perjudicial para ellos económicamente hablando.

    Si me puedes decir que conoces a fascistas que son muy buenas personas... es que suena a mofa ya de entrada.
    Seguro que los hay. Para mi es igual un comunista que un fascista. Defender regímenes totalitarios y genocidas. Ya lo ha dicho la UE condenándolos a los 2 a la vez y en paridad .
    A rakemitri le gusta esto.

    Comentario


    • Si Vox es neoliberal ¿Ciudadanos que es? ¿Neoliberal Plus ultra?
      Por no mencionar el P-LIB, porque su peso en España es prácticamente nulo.

      Comentario


      • Originalmente publicado por Carmona Ver Mensaje

        Igual, igual...

        Yo conozco a comunistas que son maravillosas personas y que dedican su vida a ayudar a los más necesitados. Algunos literalmente han arriesgado su vida en países del tercer mundo (tanto por enfermedades como por motivos bélicos) ayudando en materias de educación y sanidad de forma totalmente altruísta e incluso perjudicial para ellos económicamente hablando.

        Si me puedes decir que conoces a fascistas que son muy buenas personas... es que suena a mofa ya de entrada.
        Eso es como el que dice "no tengo nada en contra de los homosexuales, tengo un amigo incluso que lo es"
        Agarrarse al hecho de que conoces a un comunista que es un trocito de pan, por lo tanto el comunismo no es tan malo...
        Yo conozco gente afiliada a Vox (nunca he enten que una persona puede afiliarse a un partido político), que son gente muy top, una de ellas, su tiempo libre entre semanas lo dedica a colaborar con perreras, y ahora no se si sigue, pero junto con par de amigos, iban a residencias de mayores, y hacían trucos de magia y demás.
        Dicen que Vox tiene 4 millones de votos, pensar que no son buenas personas...
        Editado por última vez por sangre_verde-y-blanca; https://www.betisweb.com/foro/member/34261-sangre_verde-y-blanca en 02/11/20, 17:13:11.

        Comentario


        • La manía de blanquear el comunismo por encima del fascismo, es preocupante, es como blanquear Al-Qaeda por el ISIS
          Lo que es malo, es malo, sin más vuelta de hoja.
          Vamos condenados a repetir los mismos errores, volviendo 90 años atrás.

          Comentario


          • Originalmente publicado por sangre_verde-y-blanca Ver Mensaje

            Eso es como el que dice "no tengo nada en contra de los homosexuales, tengo un amigo incluso que lo es"
            Agarrarse al hecho de que conoces a un comunista que es un trocito de pan, por lo tanto el comunismo no es tan malo...
            Yo conozco gente afiliada a Vox (nunca he enten que una persona puede afiliarse a un partido político), que son gente muy top, una de ellas, su tiempo libre entre semanas lo dedica a colaborar con perreras, y ahora no se si sigue, pero junto con par de amigos, iban a residencias de mayores, y hacían trucos de magia y demás.
            Dicen que Vox tiene 4 millones de votos, pensar que no son buenas personas...
            Votan a casposos, ultranacionalistas, ultracatólicos, racistas, homófobos y franquistas, así que los votantes, o son así, o buena gente con la mitad del cuarto de cerebro.
            A Nucky Thompson y Carmona les gusta esto.

            Comentario


            • Comunistas = fascistas, ni machista ni feminista, ni de izquierda ni de derecha, fascista = antifascista, "Amancio bueno", "tú, pobretón, no eres como Amancio porque no te esfuerzas".

              Algunas expresiones hace que se me ericen hasta los pelos de la barba.

              Ahora resulta que es Amancio el que DA (jejeje) empleo y riqueza a los trabajadores y España, y no los trabajadores los que, con su esfuerzo, están generando la enorme plusvalía (ganando sustancialmente menos de lo que producen) para el empresario bajo condiciones, generalmente, precarias.

              Comentario


              • Originalmente publicado por Tryphon Ivanov Ver Mensaje

                Seguro que los hay. Para mi es igual un comunista que un fascista. Defender regímenes totalitarios y genocidas. Ya lo ha dicho la UE condenándolos a los 2 a la vez y en paridad .
                Es que se puede ser comunista y no estar a favor de los regímenes totalitarios del siglo XX, que al final no dejan de ser interpretaciones muy cogidas con alfileres de lo que es el comunismo.
                Evidentemente, ha habido, hay, y habrá comunistas que no sean buenas personas. Y los ejemplos de Stalin o el Che Guevara, entre muchos, están ahí para demostrarlo.

                Ahora bien, creo que no se puede ser fascista y al mismo tiempo no ser racista/xenófobo, homófobo, machista, militarista, etc. Creo, ¿eh? Aunque me encantaría que me corrigiérais si me equivoco.
                Y siendo esas cosas como que no es posible ser al mismo tiempo buena persona.

                ​​​​​​Con esto aprovecho para contestar a sangre_verde-y-blanca, que va en la misma línea:
                ¿Personas Top que votan a un partido con tintes xenófobos, homófobos, machistas, militaristas, clasistas, etc?
                Sí claro.
                Y lo de los perros ya es el culmen, votando a un partido que defiende el maltrato animal ya sea en forma de caza o de fiestas taurinas.
                La expresión de "yo no tengo nada en contra de los homosexuales... " es muy posible que se la hayas oído a su amigo Top, y si no, tu amigo debería informarse mejor de qué está votando.
                En caso contrario, sería interesante que explicases qué razones lleva entonces a tu amigo a votar a ese partido, y si no lo sabes, que se lo preguntaras. Así al menos iríamos con las caretas fuera y sería más sencillo entender sus actos.

                De todas formas me ha encantado tu relato, porque así aprendo una nueva visión de lo que significa ser buenas personas. Top, concretamente.
                Editado por última vez por Carmona; https://www.betisweb.com/foro/member/12483-carmona en 02/11/20, 18:16:17.

                Comentario


                • No es cuestión de decir si eres comunista o fascista, que no tienen nada que ver, aunque algunos se esfuercen en igualarlos para justificarse. Ni en los antiguos regímenes que cada uno se harte de mencionar. La cuestión está en lo que defiende cada uno ahora mismo, y en ese aspecto está clara la cosa.
                  A Lu, pueblo verdiblanco, Nucky Thompson y a Carmona les gusta esto.

                  Comentario


                  • Originalmente publicado por sangre_verde-y-blanca Ver Mensaje
                    La manía de blanquear el comunismo por encima del fascismo, es preocupante, es como blanquear Al-Qaeda por el ISIS
                    Lo que es malo, es malo, sin más vuelta de hoja.
                    Vamos condenados a repetir los mismos errores, volviendo 90 años atrás.
                    Para ello hay que saber en profundidad qué es el comunismo y qué es el fascismo, y no quedarse exclusivamente con las lamentables formas de gobierno de los regímenes del siglo XX.
                    ​​​​​​
                    Hasta que no se entienda que lo que hacía el Che Guevara o el mismísimo Stalin NO era comunismo, este debate carecerá de sentido.

                    ​​​​
                    Editado por última vez por Carmona; https://www.betisweb.com/foro/member/12483-carmona en 02/11/20, 18:03:06.
                    A Lytos24 le gusta esto.

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                    • Originalmente publicado por sangre_verde-y-blanca Ver Mensaje
                      La manía de blanquear el comunismo por encima del fascismo, es preocupante, es como blanquear Al-Qaeda por el ISIS
                      Lo que es malo, es malo, sin más vuelta de hoja.
                      Vamos condenados a repetir los mismos errores, volviendo 90 años atrás.
                      La moda ahora es blanquear a los fascistas, lo que está provocando que se sientan cada vez más fuertes.

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                      • Originalmente publicado por bajotierra Ver Mensaje

                        Votan a casposos, ultranacionalistas, ultracatólicos, racistas, homófobos y franquistas, así que los votantes, o son así, o buena gente con la mitad del cuarto de cerebro.
                        ¿Y eso no lo extroplas a ningún otro partido?

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                        • Originalmente publicado por derbeti Ver Mensaje

                          La moda ahora es blanquear a los fascistas, lo que está provocando que se sientan cada vez más fuertes.
                          ¿Me estás diciendo que no se está blanqueando el comunismo, por encima del fascismo?
                          que está en el gobierno y lo queremos ver algo normal

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                          • Originalmente publicado por Carmona Ver Mensaje

                            Para ello hay que saber en profundidad qué es el comunismo y qué es el fascismo, y no quedarse exclusivamente con las lamentables formas de gobierno de los regímenes del siglo XX.
                            ​​​​​​
                            Hasta que no se entienda que lo que hacía el Che Guevara o el mismísimo Stalin NO era comunismo, este debate carecerá de sentido.

                            ​​​​
                            No, es como decir lo mismo pero cambiando la palabra comunismo por fascismo.
                            ¿Que ejemplo de país comunista pondrías para hacer ver que es bueno?

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                            • Originalmente publicado por sangre_verde-y-blanca Ver Mensaje

                              ¿Me estás diciendo que no se está blanqueando el comunismo, por encima del fascismo?
                              que está en el gobierno y lo queremos ver algo normal
                              ¿Cuándo dices blanqueando al comunismo, a qué y a quién te refieres? El partido comunista español existe desde hace muchísimos años, colaborando en la democracia española. Y no han necesitado que nadie los blanquee.
                              Que forma de tergiversar las cosas.

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                              • Originalmente publicado por sangre_verde-y-blanca Ver Mensaje

                                No, es como decir lo mismo pero cambiando la palabra comunismo por fascismo.
                                ¿Que ejemplo de país comunista pondrías para hacer ver que es bueno?
                                Es que vuelves a caer en el error de reducirlos exclusivamente a los regímenes del siglo pasado, y así es imposible que avancemos en el debate, porque hay un error grande de base que lo imposibilita. Es muy fácil profundizar en el tema teniendo a la mano educación, medios digitales, e Internet. Así que de verdad, si te interesa, te invito a ello.

                                Y contestando a tu pregunta: en la historia reciente y en la actualidad, ninguno. Con rotundidad y sin medias tintas.
                                Ahora bien, ¿sería viable llevarlo a cabo con éxito en su versión más idílica y sin un asesino a los mandos que versione la doctrina según sus intereses? Pues eso da para otro debate mucho más largo y profundo. Algunos dirán que sí y otros dirán que no. Yo tengo dudas al respecto y no podría decantarme por una respuesta.
                                Pero lo que sí te puedo asegurar sí o sí, sin temor a equivocarme, es que el fascismo, ni llevándose a su versión más idílica, sería exitoso. Al menos no si contamos a gente de otras razas y/o culturas, mujeres en general, homosexuales... que sería lo suyo, ¿no?
                                Pues ahí tienes ya una gran diferencia entre ambas ideologías: una no excluye a la gente por motivos que no pueden controlar como su color de piel, el sexo o la sexualidad, entre otras.
                                Editado por última vez por Carmona; https://www.betisweb.com/foro/member/12483-carmona en 02/11/20, 18:47:41.
                                A rakemitri le gusta esto.

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